In class this week we discussed Nietzsche’s account on the origin of morals. Nietzsche argues that there “noble” individuals devised a moral system of “good and bad” by indicating that which was “good.” Those individuals seen as “weak” or “bad” (priestly) soon developed a system of “good and evil,” which replaced the former system. The moral system of evaluating things as “good” or “evil” deals with the association of “weak” with “good.”
On Thursday we discussed how this moral system applies to human nature. In the second essay of The Genealogy of Morals, the origin of guilt is said to originate from the “most primitive relationship among persons there is, in the relationship between buyer and seller, creditor and debtor” (88). We said in class that this type of creditor-debtor relationship makes sense because human beings have a tendency to measure, value, and evaluate.
The concept that we use the slavish moral system in all, or almost all, situations makes sense. I do not understand, or more so agree, with Nietzsche’s view that the elite, noble class should rule with their value system of “good and bad.” If the noble class was to rule with their value system, would our concept of guilt even exist? As of the system of “good and evil” in place now, we compare ourselves and others using the system as an evaluation tool. If we did not have such a system in place at all, would humans have evaluated things? Would humans have different characteristics?
I think that if the slavish morality system was not in place, then there might not be a sense of guilt, since we would not be comparing ourselves to a system. Rather, everything would just be assigned as “good” or “bad” and there would not be anything more to it. Hence, Jesus would not have been seen as a redeemer because lack of guilt would make it so that there is nothing to him to redeem from all of humanity.
In other words, I think that the slavish morality system is natural and necessary for life. It coincides with the natural characteristics that humans have (i.e. the tendency for human beings to measure, value, and evaluate).
What do you think? Do you think that the slavish morality is necessary? Do you think Nietzsche is right in saying that the elite class should dominate with their value system? Would guilt exist if this was the case (elite dominating)?
Any conception of a normative 'should' is hard to ascribe to Nietzsche's beliefs. However, I don't think that the slave morality is 'necessary for life'. It is a fact of our current historical moment that one necessarily must deal with, but I think that Nietzsche would argue that it is in fact against our nature. This is why we (as humans living under the slave morality) are sick. To think otherwise is to buy into deception instituted by the priestly caste
ReplyDeleteBen - But mustn't we believe in the slavish moral system? Isn't this deception necessary? If we don't, then we (the weak), are living a rather meaningless existence. By giving the strong the option to act with weakness we are creating choice. By creating choice we are creating free will. The slave revolt was a revolt against determinism as well as a rebellion against the former moral standard.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Sarah, slavish morality is necessary.
I'd like to agree with both of you, unfortunately I don't see how we can 'create' free will in any meaningful sense. I would agree that the lave revolt was a revolt against determinism (the weak not wanting to be determined to be weak) however the transvaluation was an ethical revolution at best; it was not, and perhaps more importantly cannot for Nietzsche, be a metaphysical or ontological revolt. If we accept that determinism held before the revolt, I see no reason why it shouldn't hold after the revolt. The 'choice' or 'free will' introduced by slave morality is only an apparent choice. It arises from the incorrect notion that the actor can be abstracted away from the act itself.
ReplyDeleteThe lives we live under the slave morality aren't entirely meaningless, but they are pretty close.
I would argue that the slave morality is not necessary for life, but necessary for a fulfilling life in contemporary society -- especially with the great amount of abstraction in social order and almost all aspects of human existence in the modern world.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to the comments of both Ben and Sarah, I feel Ben's is the most persuasive. However, I would like to believe in the existence of at least an iota of free will -- not because it is what I am used to hearing -- but because it, in fact, provides a lot less logic to human existence, which makes actions not just more meaningful, but the processing of those actions much more difficult to understand -- at least from my perspective.
I understand this inherently disregards the arguments of Nietzsche for a hope with little foundation, but to me it is intrinsically more thought provoking, and to reconcile the ability to have free will within the system Nietzsche proposes is not just worth mediation, but does, in fact, seem acceptable.
Slave morality is not natural, but rather a necessity in today's society, that in order to be accepted and allowed to participate in society one must follow the rules of the slavish. This is circular though, as all of society today is in a slavish state and therefore we are all taught and raised to be slaves due to circumstances. This makes me question, that if all of society is weak and slavish, is it possible for someone to be strong in this society? Almost all reason points to no, unless they are removed and raised out of the present world, and then placed into it. Or is it only possible to call the weak who resemble traits of the strong to be the closest we can get to the original strong class, since slavish society won't allow for the strong to follow their natural order and be strong?
ReplyDeleteNietzsche gives us the example of Napoleon as a 'strong' person who was born into our slavish morality. He wasn't able to fully express his strength, but he did a much better job than the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteJonathan, I feel where you're coming from. I also would like to believe that human beings have free will. Unfortunately our wanting to have it does not grant it to us. We must find other positions on which to argue against the determinism Nietzsche appears to be defending.